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Getting to the Truth: Part III

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All right, here's the thing. My analyses are turning out longer than expected, so I'm gonna break them up even more. Here's how I'll breakdown the rest of season 7.

Part III - "Potential," "The Killer in Me," and "First Date."
Part IV - "Get it Done" to "Empty Places."
Part V - The final three episodes, unless they turn out longer, in which case I'll save "Chosen" for Part VI.

Thank you again for waiting and I apologize for the delay. Without much further ado, let's dig deeper into Buffy and Spike's relationship!



“Potential”

The trust between Buffy and Spike is now restored, which is critical to their relationship moving forward, especially in terms of romance. But, at the moment, it’s back to work in the fight against the First. The episode starts with Buffy teaching the potential slayers how to fight vampires. And Spike is finally able to help Buffy without her feeling tense. A complete contrast to their relationship when Spike returned to town offering his help in "Beneath You." Since Buffy and Spike trust each other again, but on an entirely different level, they are able to start working as a team. And this episode clearly shows it, along with Buffy’s trying to figure out her feelings towards Spike.

First, in the graveyard, Buffy shows the potentials how to use their instincts when fighting vampires. She then tells Spike to come at her. When Spike does and Buffy pins him down, she notices he’s hurt and asks if he’s ok. Spike tries to brush it off, saying that some of his ribs aren’t set right since he’s still recovering from being tortured by the First, but he’s fine. But, Buffy is genuinely concerned and wants to see if he’s hurt, so she lifts up his shirt. Spike says no (Buffy’s getting a little too close for comfort) and Buffy says, “Spike,” in a way that sounds like she really cares about him. Spike then takes her hand and holds it while he covers his shirt. He then calmly assures her that he’ll be ok. The potentials, key witnesses to this whole scene, notice the obvious chemistry between Buffy and Spike. “That’s hot.” “So, we’re suppose to, like, make-out with them or something?” The romance is building. And before the opening montage begins, Buffy looks at Spike and then seems as if she’s trying to figure out what just happened or more importantly, what she just felt when she helped Spike. Her feelings are confusing, as they usually are in matters of love.

We get a better understand of Buffy’s confused feelings later at the school. Buffy and Amanda have a conversation about guys picking on girls. Honestly, for anyone who doubts whether Buffy ever had feelings for Spike in season 6, this scene makes it clear that she did. When Amanda asks Buffy if it’s weird to like a guy who picks on her, Buffy’s reaction (my lovely icon) is adorable. She shyly looks down and smiles. She knows exactly what Amanda is talking about because we know she’s thinking about her relationship with Spike.

Amanda also says, “We’re mean to each other and we like each other.” Buffy responds by saying this type of relationships depends on the couple because sometimes, that’s how people relate. Here’s the thing though because I don’t want people to misinterpret this conversation, considering the horrible things both Buffy and Spike later did in s6. Before Buffy and Spike’s relationship took a turn for the worst in s6, they did like each other (see s6 analysis). The problem was that Buffy and Spike were always mortal enemies until Spike fell in love with Buffy. When Buffy started developing feelings too (early s6), she was more confused because she’s the slayer and he’s a vampire with no soul. She’s NOT suppose to love a vampire like Spike. And even when they were in a relationship (although it was purely sexual), they were still mean. So, when Buffy refers to her relationship with Spike in this scene, it refers to when they were actually in a relationship. It led to “absolutely no good” and “much confusion,” which was true because Buffy felt it was wrong to have feelings for Spike. She also knew it was wrong to use him, so she ended it in “As You Were.” BUT, even when Buffy “absolutely, definitely, seriously,” ended the relationship, she was still confused with “the over part.” She still had feelings for Spike even after ending their relationship (see “Hell’s Bells” for further proof). And as much as Buffy’s trying to convince herself that the relationship is really over, she’s not entirely sure it is because Spike is different now. Their relationship is different now.

This is made evident with exchange of glances at the bar scene. Buffy tells the potentials that they can “down all the yak urine shots or pigs blood spritzers” they’d like. Buffy then smirks at Spike and Spike smirks back. They’re able to share a smile and small laugh with each other, like they’re old friends who know something the other people around them don’t. It’s such a cute exchange! What I also love about this exchange is that the last time Buffy and Spike shared a similar encounter was in “Hell’s Bells.” Spike said he was happy to see her smile, even if it was for Xander and Anya, because she’s glows when she smiles (hint, hint). But, in this scene, Buffy shares a smile with Spike. She’s happy to joke about something with him again (like her dress being radioactive at the wedding).

Moving back to the graveyard, Buffy, Spike, and the potentials enter a vampire crypt. Buffy explains that although vampires can live anywhere and anyway they want, “the animal inside is always the same.” Spike seems kind of put off by Buffy’s statement and rightfully so, since he’s been trying to fight the animal/monster inside him. BUT, when Spike tries to find the right word to describe what his crypt was like, Buffy jumps in and says it was “comfy.” It makes total sense why Buffy would find it comfy, although Kennedy is shocked and confused as to why. In early s6, particularly “Life Serial,” Buffy found comfort in being around Spike himself, which made his crypt comfy. So, Buffy is remembering how comfortable she felt around Spike. Again, Buffy’s confused about her feelings, but they all point in the direction of something other than a friendship between her and Spike.

One final Buffy/Spike moment in this episode is when Buffy tosses a knife to Spike when they are in battle. Just another example of how awesome Buffy and Spike work together as a team.



****************************************************************



“The Killer in Me”

Let’s start with the basement scene. Buffy and Spike are talking like friends again and feel more comfortable around each other. Spike also explains that it’s better for him to be chained up in case the First does trigger him again (worried about that monster inside him). Buffy understands, but says he’s been fine, even when he’s been around the potentials. Spike says that it’s better when Buffy’s by his side. He knows she won’t let him hurt anyone, so in a sense, he feels safer around Buffy. The chip then starts to malfunction, causing Spike to feel intense pain.

We then have another sweet scene where Buffy takes care of Spike. She hands him a towel to wipe the blood from his nose. Buffy says that there has to be a reason for the chip to go all wonky, but Spike thinks maybe he just wasn’t meant to last this long. Like Buffy, who wasn’t suppose to last long as a slayer, Spike thinks he’s outdone his time too. “One more thing you and I have in common, eh, pet?” But, Buffy believes the chip can be fixed and calls Riley. Sidenote: love Buffy and Spike’s little Ghostbuster joke. Just another subtle example of how they’re able to joke with each other again.

Buffy and Spike then go to the sight of the Initiative. As they talk and dig through the dirt, it’s another small, but important example of how they are working together as a team. More importantly, they are not being mean to each other, especially Buffy. In fact, she’s the one joking with him now! “Eh, nothing good on TV tonight.” She’s again starting to feel more comfortable around him, which is a complete contrast to how they were in "Beneath You." And as they walk through the Initiative, there’s no hint of mean sarcasm between them. They are working together, like partners. Also, when Buffy gets attacked by the demon and Spike’s chip starts acting up, causing him to collapse, she calls his name as if she’s worried. Again, it shows that she cares about his well-being.

After Buffy kills the demon and checks out Spike, the army appears. Riley got Buffy’s message. Then, when Buffy learns Spike’s chip is degraded and fatal, she has to make a critical decision: either have the army fix Spike’s chip or remove it. Does Buffy now trust Spike enough to allow the chip to be removed? Absolutely!


****************************************************************



“First Date”

When Spike attacks Giles, thinking he’s the First, Giles wonders why Spike is able to hit him. We immediately learn Buffy made the choice to remove Spike’s chip. Giles is not happy with Buffy’s decision. And he expresses his feelings in the following scene. “You know this is dangerous.” Free-range Spike. He asks Buffy why on earth she would make the decision to remove Spike’s chip and Buffy’s says it was instinct. She felt it was right. Buffy then tries to make a case for Spike. He was dangerous even when he was under the First’s control, so the chip would make no difference. Giles thinks that if the chip was repaired, it could have restrained Spike better, even if he was under the First’s control. BUT, for Buffy, it’s not longer about keeping Spike chained up and on a leash because she’s sees him as a man. “Spike has a soul now.  That’s what’s gonna stop him from hurting people.” Again, Buffy’s believes Spike can be good because he faced the monster inside, as she said in “Never Leave Me.” And she reiterates this point to Giles.

He can be a good man, Giles. I feel it. But he's never gonna get there if we don't give him the chance.

Giles gets more serious. He thinks Buffy’s feelings for Spike are clouding her judgment.

It doesn't matter if you're not physical with each other anymore. There's a connection. You rely on him, he relies on you. That's what's affecting your judgment.

Even Giles knows Buffy and Spike have feelings! In fact, their relationship is much bigger than a physical connection now. They have a deeper connection. They rely on each other, especially now that the trust between them is restored. Buffy then tries to assure Giles that she's not losing sight of the big picture. But, she also knows that it was wrong to have Spike with the chip, especially if he's trying to a better person. "You can't beat evil by doing evil." Again, Buffy is full of love.

Later, when Willow says that it would help Buffy move on if she goes out with Robin Wood, Buffy immediately assumes Willow is talking about Spike and gets defensive. “Why does everyone in this house think I’m still in love with Spike?” Wait…what was that Buffy? STILL IN LOVE? Not, “still love,” but “still in love.” That is a MAJOR difference. So, Buffy possibly was in love with Spike, although she never admitted. Spike felt it, other people recognized it, but Buffy isn’t completely there yet. But, whether or not Buffy was in love with Spike in s6, the fact that she thought Willow was referring to Spike seems to suggest Spike is on her mind when it comes to romance. Further proof of this is the hallway scene.

Buffy comes out of the bathroom wearing a lace tank-top style blouse. She immediately stops in her tracks when she bumps into Spike. She feels a bit nervous and tries to cover herself up. Spike tries to look away too, since this is clearly an awkward moment for both of them. So, here’s the thing: if Buffy and Spike were so comfortable around each other as friends (as I laid out), why would this moment be so awkward? It wouldn’t be unless they had feelings for each other.

Spike tries to make it less awkward and says Buffy looks nice. Buffy smiles and thanks him, and then tries to explain herself, saying traditionally one wears something over his blouse. Spike then  mentions how he heard she’s got a date tonight. And instead of Buffy saying, “Yes, it’s a date,” she says, “Well, it’s unclear.” She says it could be about a promotion or that he’s evil. Again, if Buffy was so over Spike, why then try to explain herself and her outing with Robin? She keeps saying that it’s over between her and Spike, so why can’t she admit it to Spike himself? Because it’s really not, especially for Buffy! There’s still something unresolved there.

Spike catches on (because he knows her so well) and says that he’s actually okay with her going out on a date. Spike is the one who acknowledges it’s over between them. “Think I still dream of a crypt for two with a white picket fence? My eyes are clear.” Buffy feels calm by his statement, thanks him, and mentions he should try going out too. When Buffy leaves, we see Spike with a sad and disappointed face. Spike may have said it was over between them to make Buffy feel more comfortable, but he still has feelings. He’ll always have feelings. He’ll always be in love Buffy because no other girl could mean anything to him as much as Buffy does

Later, when Xander is in trouble and Spike interrupts Buffy’s date, he doesn’t act too hasty. He looks at Buffy and although there are bigger things to worry about, it seems like it still stings him to see her with another guy. And in the car, Buffy again feels awkward with her date and her ex, who we know she still has feelings for. At the high school, Spike gets beaten up by the demon to the point where he gets knocked down. After Buffy kills it, she goes to check on Spike first! I mean come on! The way Spike looks at her…it’s as if he knows Buffy still cares about him.  He also takes her hand to comfort her, saying he’s ok. It’s like their scene together in “Potential.” Robin notices the obvious connection between Buffy and Spike, which causes Buffy to then go check on Xander.

Finally, the last scene in the episode with Buffy and Spike talking on the couch. Spike says that the First spoke to Andrew and said it wasn’t time for Spike yet. So, Spike knows the First still has plans for Spike, possibly triggering him again. Spike suggests that he move out, even leave town, because he doesn’t want to hurt anyone. Buffy says no and that he has to stay. Spike tries to convince her that she doesn’t need him because she has another demon fighter: Robin. But, Buffy says it’s not about fighting demons. “That’s not why I need you here.” So, Spike asks why. What is Buffy getting at? And Buffy says the reason why is because she’s not ready for Spike to not be here. She’s not ready for Spike to not be around her. Her reasons for having Spike in her life go much deeper than fighting demons. It may have been like that in the past (see season 5), but again, their relationship is completely different now, in this moment in time!

Spike seems surprised by her answer. So, he presses further, but not too much because Buffy has been so unclear about her feelings that he doesn’t want to go looking for hope when there still might not be any. He asks where Robin fits in, since he thinks she may have feelings for him. Buffy looks at Spike as if she really doesn’t know how to answer that question. More importantly, she’s still not there to admit her feelings for Spike. And Spike gets it, so he looks away, disappointed again. But one thing is for sure at this point: Buffy doesn’t just need Spike in her life because she's not ready to part ways. Buffy wants Spike in her life. The version of Spike that she wants, however, is another issue entirely.

To be continued… 

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Comments

( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
kikimay
Jan. 25th, 2014 11:32 am (UTC)
Awww, all the Spuffyness. This meta is so good and I agree with your thoughts about Buffy and Spike and their complicated interaction during S7. This season is really my Spuffy season, the season that makes me believe in them as a couple. And btw your icon is adorable.
fttstar07
Jan. 25th, 2014 09:16 pm (UTC)
Thank you for the comment! And season 7 is my Spuffy season too! Glad you enjoyed reading! :)
red_satin_doll
Feb. 24th, 2014 07:58 pm (UTC)
You're posting again, yay! I'll have to go back to watching my friends page religiously.

BTW - Part 2 of this series (re:Showtime) and your reference to "lovers' walk" recently inspired me to make these:



But also this inspired by the line from HIMYM:

*LOL*

Edited at 2014-02-24 07:58 pm (UTC)
red_satin_doll
Feb. 24th, 2014 08:36 pm (UTC)
Now to your meta:

The callback to Hell's Bells reminds me of something blackfrancine wrote about a few years ago (f'locked post) about how important humor is to Buffy and Spike's relationship; it not only communicates intimacy and shared knowledge but is often used to defuse or recalibrate a situation, to let one another "off the hook". Notice though it doesn't work very well in the hallway scene in First Date; Buffy's jokes are awkward. She's far less self-confident in S7 than she was back in S1-2.

Re: TKIM, I love that Buffy takes the initiative to call Riley - no pun intended. That's something she did earlier in the season in calling Quentin Travers looking for Giles, the first time in the entire series going to the WC rather than being approached by them. She may be far less confident than she was in the early seasons on a very personal level, but on another she's more confident than she was in S6 especially when it comes to "getting it done". I wanted to see more of that aspect of her leadership style. (It's interesting that she is focused on Spike to the absolute exclusion of her best friend. I suspect the writers were using that as a way to work Kennedy into the story more.)

Buffy and Spike then go to the sight of the Initiative. As they talk and dig through the dirt, it’s another small, but important example of how they are working together as a team.

Which is the mirror of the similar scene in Something Blue. The difference between these two moments speaks volumes in terms of how far they've come:


Am I the only person who is bothered by Riley's "tell assface I said hello?" Especially in light of AYW *spits* People have said to me it's just "guy banter" but Riley and Spike were not on friendly terms, and it seems disrespectful to me of Buffy as well. (Imagine Buffy replying with "And say hello to the cunt you married" or some such.) Maybe I'm missing something because it doesn't strike me as funny.

Then, when Buffy learns Spike’s chip is degraded and fatal, she has to make a critical decision: either have the army fix Spike’s chip or remove it.

I've seen the complaint that the decision was Spike's to make, not her's, but we have no idea if she speaks to him after she's given the option (we don't see that), but in any case he may be entirely unconscious at that point? I'd liken it to having to make a point-blank decision about a loved one in the hospital - generally, you do the best you can based on what you know about their wishes.

The opening scene in First Date where he says "there was a decision" and the two of them are finishing each other's sentences indicates some sort of mutual agreement. (And it's one of my favorite Spuffy moments in the entire series. So cute. And the hat!)

Giles gets more serious. He thinks Buffy’s feelings for Spike are clouding her judgment.

Pot, meet kettle. Didn't Giles whisk Willow off to England and go "all dumbledore" on her, when it could be argued she ought to have gone to prison, like Faith did?

First Date fascinates me. the Giles and Buffy scene alone is one of my favorites of the season and their entire shared arc. Giles is very good at convincing himself he's fully rational and his judgement isn't clouded by emotion. We're back to the Gift: he was trying to rationalize that Dawn had to die even as he became angry about it, and Buffy was in an understandably fragile, emotional place. He hasn't changed, but she has. This time she's calmer, more together, and she's trying to fight fire with fire, trying to placate him with rational arguments of her own. (You'd think he'd know better by now than to mess with people Buffy Summers loves.)

The entire weight of their history is there: not just Angel and Jenny, but also Ripper; a fanfic convinced me that Giles sees himself in Spike and that's part of his disapproval as a "father". Of everyone that season - perhaps the entire series - Giles is the only person who doesn't put a label on Buffy and Spike's relationship (i.e. "Is he your boyfriend?") but instead he accurately describes how it functions.
red_satin_doll
Feb. 24th, 2014 08:36 pm (UTC)

“Why does everyone in this house think I’m still in love with Spike?”

In the original shooting script the line is "Does everyone in this house still think I'm in love with Spike?" Very very different meaning just by shifting the word "still".

He’ll always be in love Buffy because no other girl could mean anything to him as much as Buffy does.

The problem I have with this line is that it negates his 100+ years with Drusilla (I'm surprised how little attention his relationship with Dru receives even in Spike/Spuffy fandom.) As the_royal_anna said ten years ago of Buffy re: Angel and Spike, "I don't know that we love in amounts. We love in ways."

And it closes off any options for the future. "Never" is an awfully long time. (I haven't watched AtS btw but he chooses not to go back to Buffy and stays with Angel and Co instead. Not that I agree that Spike would never have even bothered to let Buffy know he was alive, but that is canon. )

Looking forward to the next installment!
fttstar07
Feb. 28th, 2014 02:28 am (UTC)
In the original shooting script the line is "Does everyone in this house still think I'm in love with Spike?" Very very different meaning just by shifting the word "still".

VERY different meaning with the shift! Glad the better one made the final cut!

The problem I have with this line is that it negates his 100+ years with Drusilla (I'm surprised how little attention his relationship with Dru receives even in Spike/Spuffy fandom.) As the_royal_anna said ten years ago of Buffy re: Angel and Spike, "I don't know that we love in amounts. We love in ways."

I remember reading that meta and I absolutely loved it. I definitely agree that we love in ways, not amounts and Buffy's relationships are a clear example of that. However, for me, when Spike says in "Sleeper" that no other girl could mean anything to him than Buffy could, I think it does negate his relationship with Dru to an extent. For one thing, he didn't have a soul when he was with Dru. He didn't have a soul when he fell in love with Buffy too, but he went out and fought for his soul. Buffy made him want to be a better man. I also think Spike didn't really understand love when he didn't have a soul. But S7 is all about both Buffy and Spike learning about love and it's true meaning. I'll explain more of this as I get to the last couple of episodes. :)

Edited at 2014-02-28 01:34 pm (UTC)
red_satin_doll
Feb. 28th, 2014 05:40 pm (UTC)
Everything that Anna says is brilliant (even when I disagree with her) and still the gold standard IMO. She loves both Buffy and Spike and is so compassionate to both of them, and that's hard to find. I admit I don't love Spike as much as Buffy, and I can't even come close to her prose-poetry and her insights. (and even when she pops on to my LJ to leave a brief comment or thanks she'll say something brillant, like about Buffy's red top in IWMTLY to the Body representing first "bright optimism" then becoming "the raw red wound" I go absolutely verklempt and wish she'd write about the show again.)

However, for me, when Spike says in "Sleeper" that no other girl could mean anything to him than Buffy could, I think it does negate his relationship with Dru to an extent.

Yeah, and I think that comes out of the "retcon" of FFL, that Spike fell in love with Buffy in S2, from the moment he saw her, which S2 itself did not indicate at all. But that happens several times in the show, someone gets a new idea and the whole thing shifts (Giles going from almost a stereotype of sexually shy tweedy librarian to being very comfortable with Olivia and more "mature", believable adult male, for instance; or Normal Again. etc)

But it doesn't entirely work for me in the sense that I watched the entire series in three weeks so to go from one to the other so quickly was odd for me - nothing in S2 indicated that he wasn't entirely devoted to Dru, he teamed up with Buffy specifically for her, to save her (and because he liked living in the world) and to get her away from Angelus. Then in a single episode (OOMM) he goes from trying to kill her to dreaming about kissing her - I read that as an effect of the chip (he can't kill her so the energy he's focused on her as an enemy has to go somewhere), and as a side-effect of being around her, around humans, and that human part of himself being slowly reawakened as it were.

I think FFL supports this in the sense that the deaths of Nikki and Xin Rong are extremely sexualized and fetishized - he literally MOUNTS Nikki before he breaks her neck (not unlike he way Buffy is atop him at the end of Smashed), and he and Dru make love right next to Xin Rong's still warm body; it's a turn-on. ("It's all the same damn thing to you vampires" as Buffy complains to Holden.)

And I think it's unfortunately because it obscured Drusilla as a character (and the parallels between her and Buffy that have nothing to do with Spike.)

A little OT - And I suddenly remember one of the things that does bug me about Spike in S7 - the way that he lays the soul-quest on Buffy's shoulders several times. It goes along I think with his statement "you used me" - which she already admitted to in AYW - becaus again it puts the mess on her shoulders without admitting that he was a consenting partner (she never lied to him the way Parker lied to her, he knew what she was there for) that he "used" her in some way almost continually since S2 - for excitement, a challenge, an enemy to kill, an ally when it was convenient, protection from the Initiative, companionship, status, sex, affection and friendship. He's always had an agenda of his own - several, depending on which way the wind shifted.

I can deal with thought because unlike Riley, Giles, Xander and Angel, he eventually takes the responsibility back upon himself. I think it's implied more than anything but it's there. He stops "blaming" her. As you say, S7 is about Buffy and Spike - and I'll also say, Faith, and I wish there had been more of her in S7 - achieving mutual understanding, forgiveness and a state of grace with one another. That to me is much more interesting than "romance".

red_satin_doll
Feb. 28th, 2014 05:40 pm (UTC)
For one thing, he didn't have a soul when he was with Dru. He didn't have a soul when he fell in love with Buffy too, but he went out and fought for his soul.

And of course he and Dru both argued that they were capable of love. But it wasn't love as Buffy defined it, and for two people to be in a successful relationship there has to be at least some consistency and agreement on that most basic thing, even if it's hard to put into words. A relationship that one person thinks is casual and the other person sees as long term is not going to go very far, or one person will be satisfied but the other person won't.

Buffy made him want to be a better man.

Right (this gets overlooked a lot, weirdly enough IMO). And this shift started happening in S5, when she wasn't being "nice and sweet" to him, she wasn't returning his overtures of love or chuckling indulgently when he stole her underwear (which is gross) or chained her up in his crypt (really gross). She was saying constantly and consistently This is not acceptable behavior. I'm not putting up with this. This is not ok. She was laying out pretty clear expectations, and maybe she was harsh at times but this was someone who went from wanting to kill her to wanting to kiss her in an eyeblink - in FFL the two coexist side by side. Of course she's going to push him away, as she should.

But she's also demonstrated trust in him in other ways, in his ability as a warrior, to look after Joyce and Dawn, to come with everyone in Spiral, which is huge ("Because I say so.") She's including him in ways that have nothing to do with love or sex and he responds positively to this. That's what "you treat me like a man" is about. He's at the point where he's questioning whether or not he really wants to be a monster anymore. If Buffy hadn't died, been resurrected and come back depressed (and still in mourning I'll argue) and Giles hadn't abandoned her; if she hadn't been in desperate need of a support system like never before, she wouldn't have broken down and kissed him, given into her darker impulses. S6 took both of them off-track, and S7 sets them back to rights.

Yeah, I have feelings about those crazy kids. I can't wait to read the rest.

BTW - have you also read lostboy's "The Chosen O"? One of my favorite meta about that moment in Chosen.
fttstar07
Feb. 28th, 2014 02:20 am (UTC)
Absolutely love the image you made!! The HIMYM is brilliant LOL!!

Notice though it doesn't work very well in the hallway scene in First Date; Buffy's jokes are awkward. She's far less self-confident in S7 than she was back in S1-2.

Agreed. Unlike Hell's Bells or earlier seasons, the humor is way awkward between them. Buffy tries and Spike tries. But again, their relationship is so different now. They've gone through a lot and talked about things to the point where their relationship is much more than playful banters.

Am I the only person who is bothered by Riley's "tell assface I said hello?"

I dk. I'm not too bothered by it only because Riley really hated Spike and probably doesn't believe he's changed or will ever change. Riley thinks so highly of Buffy that it's probably hard for him to see her with someone like Spike, who he sees as the lowest of the low. I think the scene tried to play it off funny, but IMO it didn't really work. Buffy has the final say anyways ;)

I've seen the complaint that the decision was Spike's to make, not her's, but we have no idea if she speaks to him after she's given the option (we don't see that), but in any case he may be entirely unconscious at that point?

Yeah, it looks to me like Spike was unconscious at that point, especially when they showed the shot of him on the table. I also think the scene is more meaningful if the decision is left only to Buffy, which is what I took from it.

The opening scene in First Date where he says "there was a decision" and the two of them are finishing each other's sentences indicates some sort of mutual agreement. (And it's one of my favorite Spuffy moments in the entire series. So cute. And the hat!)

Mine too, lol! What I take from this scene is that Spike was unconscious when Buffy had to make a decision and he understood it. "It was a choice." I'd like to think that after the procedure, Buffy and Spike had a nice talk about Spike no longer having the chip. Similar to the basement scenes. They came to an understanding and would proceed forward.


Edited at 2014-02-28 02:29 am (UTC)
red_satin_doll
Feb. 28th, 2014 06:06 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I'm really pleased with how that came out - and I'll probably rotate it with the milder "lovers' walk" one. That just popped into my head one day when I read yet another fic (or claim in a convo thread) that Buffy was "lying" in Chosen and I HAD to express my feelings. I think an icon works better than a long-winded rant. Feel free to snag any one of them btw.

And that moment in HIMYM is one of my favorite tv comedy moments ever:


i think the scene tried to play it off funny, but IMO it didn't really work. Buffy has the final say anyways ;)

That's probably a reasonable view., although I definitely think it shows a lack of class. (But then again, this is the guy who thought getting vamp suck jobs was an acceptable way to "communicate" with his girlfriend, or that it was ok to barge in on Buffy and Spike while they were sleeping together. So I guess "assface" is small potatoes. (Can you tell I don't like him? You should see my recent Riley icons *lol*)

I also think the scene is more meaningful if the decision is left only to Buffy, which is what I took from it.

Interesting (*strokes chin*) From her point of view and her arc, definitely; I think the people looking at it the other way are doing so from his POV in terms of "consent". I see it as I said as a decision that has to be made, one way or the other. But it also is just one signpost of the shift in Buffy's thinking, and her relationship to him - yet another signpost of many.

And I really don't see anything that says Spike WANTS to be rechipped, only that he thinks he OUGHT to be for safety's sake. (Giles' view does have some validity).

I'd like to think that after the procedure, Buffy and Spike had a nice talk about Spike no longer having the chip. Similar to the basement scenes. They came to an understanding and would proceed forward.

That's exactly how I see it - they are so comfortable with each other in that opening scene in First Date, I don't see anything to indicate the opposite. Buffy can rationalize this as needing him as a warrior by her side, but of course there is more to it than that.(Contrast that with the later scene in the hallway.) It's odd, when they're talking to Giles together, they seem more comfortable with each other, they're able to present a united front. There has been a definite shift that has left Giles "the odd man out". (That's partially what "You used to be the big man!" in Touched is about.)

But that shift began I think the moment Giles insisted Dawn MUST die in The Gift, and that's why it's called back to in LMPTM. He goes behind her back - again - to attack someone she cares about.

Later, when Xander is in trouble and Spike interrupts Buffy’s date, he doesn’t act too hasty.

I think he feels awkward about interrupting - but contrast that with how eager he is to go fetch her in the house when Willow is trying to interpret Xander's message on her phone. It's actually kind of funny.

BTW - I admit when I was watching the show two years ago, I thought Wood was hot and I was ready to ship him and Buffy in Lessons because I just wanted her to be happy. The whole trying to kill Spike and "you remind me of my mother" put a definitive end to that of course. (Comparing someone to your mom is generally a thing you say after you're in a relationship with someone - and often not as a compliment! Although both Wood and Spike have mommy issues...)

But am I the only person who was happy that SOMEBODY took Buffy out on a date at a nice restaurant and she was actually being treated to a nice meal? The last dates we saw her on was at the movies with Angel in S3 (french porn film - awkward!) and picnics with Riley (who has a paycheck from the Initiative and could probably afford much better. Cheapskate.)

So I'll always have a fondness for Wood if only for that. (And yes he was cool and sexy and funny all the way up until LMPTM.)
fttstar07
Mar. 5th, 2014 08:46 pm (UTC)
That scene between Lily and Marshall...I remember too they were talking about how the only fight they had was whether "Tommy Boy" was awesome or more awesome. That's love bitch! LOL! I don't want HIMYM to end.

That's probably a reasonable view., although I definitely think it shows a lack of class. Oh big time! I'm not the biggest fan of Riley either, especially when he gave Buffy the ultimatum. But, I did like it in s6 when he reminded Buffy how she's an amazing woman. Buffy needed to hear that.

And I really don't see anything that says Spike WANTS to be rechipped, only that he thinks he OUGHT to be for safety's sake. (Giles' view does have some validity).

Exactly! It goes back to all those issues he's been trying to resolve throughout s7. Is Spike a better man for getting his soul? Is Spike capable of being a good man? Is Spike worthy of redemption? Buffy certainly thinks so. ;)

There has been a definite shift that has left Giles "the odd man out". (That's partially what "You used to be the big man!" in Touched is about.)

Agreed. I can't wait to get to "Touched." ;)

But am I the only person who was happy that SOMEBODY took Buffy out on a date at a nice restaurant and she was actually being treated to a nice meal?

I never really thought of that, but I think it was good for Buffy to go on a date, even with Wood, lol! Not just to have fun and a good meal, but maybe to also realize her feelings for Spike. We wouldn't have those awesome scenes where Buffy and Spike run into each other in the hall or have a moment on the couch. So, thanks Wood!

I also think Buffy and Wood would have been an interesting pair with all the slayer knowledge. Now that I think of it, they should have brought his character in sooner, or maybe they should have started dating earlier in s7, so there was a decent love triangle, other than Buffy/Angel/Spike.



red_satin_doll
Mar. 19th, 2014 11:01 pm (UTC)
But, I did like it in s6 when he reminded Buffy how she's an amazing woman. Buffy needed to hear that.

She didn't need to hear that he "smelled the smell." So he belittles her while "complimenting" her? That's not a compliment that's just being a smug know it all. And he's the same person he was in S4's Doomed: I know you better than you know yourself. Ugh

And yet I admit when I watched the ep the first time (AYW) I cheered when Buffy stepped into the sunlight at the end, I honestly did. So I still loathed Riley but I was very much ready for Buffy to come out of that destructive relationship. Was Riley a catalyst? I guess he was.

Buffy certainly thinks so. ;)

Buffy should know! I know in Spuffy fandom the refrain is constantly "he knows her better than anyone" and that's true but with some limits (in some areas he doesn't know her as well as he thinks he does); but by S7 I'd say that is very much true in reverse. Except for Angel and Dru no one knows Spike better than Buffy. It's just not stated as often.

And Buffy's faith in him is clearly a powerful thing in Season 7.

I also think Buffy and Wood would have been an interesting pair with all the slayer knowledge. Now that I think of it, they should have brought his character in sooner, or maybe they should have started dating earlier in s7, so there was a decent love triangle, other than Buffy/Angel/Spike.

YES, to all of this. Season 7 missed the boat on a lot of things, and that's one of them. I like what you suggest here. It could have been so more interesting at this point than the B/A/S triangle, and I would have loved to know more about Slayer history and mythology, about Buffy's "foremothers". Turning it into a pissing contest between DA BoyZ was a missed opportunity.
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I loved studying film and television in college. So, after watching "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," I decided to continue my studies and share my thoughts and analyses with fellow Buffy fans.

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